Thursday, April 06, 2006

Changing Your Mind

Now, apart from Lampe Berger, I have seen other MLMs that have something in common. It's mind control. How they do it, is an eye opener. For example, why would they have talks, where they will showcase luxuries, expensive cars, and highly charged talks? Why the first thing they show you in their presentation, is a big house, a vacation in paradise, a fast car? It's all part of their brain washing activity. I have been to a few, and it shows how well the organisers have planned it.

Now there's something more subtle to this. You have to have skills to brainwash people. Heard the term Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) ? It was heavily researched by two guys in the seventies, and this is the product of their research. They wanted to study how successful people behave, and what are their traits are.

Basically Neuro is for the neurons connecting to our brains, where we receive the 5 senses from our environment. Linguistic is about language (verbal and non verbal), and Programming is the way or methods to alter.

So, it means you can use NLP techniques to change the behaviour of someone. You can make it to close sales as I found out in this link:

http://www.lakinassociates.com/nlp.html

Or you can use it for mass mind control, which ultimate aim is money and power. Most cults use this.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/general/general756.html

NLP may be use in a positive way, but it may be used to control one's mind. Perhaps this is why your friends who are into this business, always ask you to go for the previews. So, they can brainwash a bigger audience.

So beware, if you do go for LB preview or roadshow, have a strong mind, or don't go at all. This applies to all other MLMs that is using this sick technique to control's other people's mind. In fact we should be symphatising to LB members as they have been mind controlled by their uplines.

No way, a normal person will buy into their product. They have to be strongly mind altered.

Free your mind. Free theirs too. Bring down DCHL and all the likes of it.

If any of you who have been to their seminars, talks, just share it in the comments.

49 Comments:

Anonymous lillian beh said...

Your blog was doing well already. This latest posting is an insult to your own intelligence as well as your readers'. Please stick with what you know.

7:33 AM  
Blogger Steven Yip said...

hi lillian,

My own brother is in a state of denial . He mentions not to tell bad news about lamepe berger to him. In other words, he has decided to close his mind. This may explain why people change overnight after attending.

I am seeking a answer as to what extent mind control is being used.

As you can see Amway has lots of complaints regarding this.

I am totally against all these activities that wreaks havoc into other people normal lives.

7:52 AM  
Anonymous lillian beh said...

Blogging on what you have NO UNDERSTANDING of serves only to weaken and jeopardise your cause. Stick with the facts.

Question No. 1 - Why is your brother not listening to you? A communication breakdown along the way?

8:08 AM  
Blogger Steven Yip said...

I noticed him changed, more agressive, and it seems like investing in 30k is the only way to go. It seems like rational questions doesn't makes sense to him. Explaining the facts doesn't make sense too.

He treats all those questions as personal attacks, saying I belittle him, don't want to see him success.

And you can check out
http://www.brandmalaysia.com/movabletype/archives/2006/04/lampe_berger_a.html
Another example of irrational behaviour.

Now why such behaviour? What causes it?

How come money has replace their senses? And that (LB biz) has become their ultimate aim?

In fact advertising knows well, that emotion sells better than facts. That's quite subtle too, but not damaging compared to what we have here.

I got friends who are in other MLMs and so out of this world. I really hope something could really pull them out.

8:20 AM  
Anonymous lillian beh said...

You really think that MLM companies are the cause of the problems? You are way off the mark, sweet heart. It isn't the company but the people that creates the problems. Go get yourself a wife and you will know ...

8:29 AM  
Blogger TreVesco said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

8:41 AM  
Blogger TreVesco said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

8:43 AM  
Anonymous a friend said...

I think, one of the main reson why they didnt manage to influence me was because I wasnt desperate for cash. I went to wisma HLA at the first place because of curiosity towards my friend's side business.

Personally I think those that becomes a member were either desperate for cash or wanted to experience luxuries. We also have to remember that these members have to get new members, in order for their income to roll. That is why they have all these trainings on how to recruit new partners.

I have to say that if you are not strong and easily blinded by money, I believe they do have the techniques to weakens you further. Just beware...

8:55 AM  
Blogger TreVesco said...

lillian beh,

kinda agree with your 'MLM companies are the cause of the problems', You are way off the mark"

exactly

teenagers have yet to understand the society, those money minded ppl brain wash them with MLM concept. Promise them with the MLM concept.

After all it's more like using money to brain wash them.

And yeah, money minded + those who like to go shortcut people will choose MLM as a way to do business.

and Steven Yip,
you got the point too, some MLM people will use NLP as their tool to motivate themselves.

But it's not really easy to use NLP to brainwash people after all.

Like what you said, NLP is actually meant for motivation.

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Neuro-linguistic+programming&curtab=2222_1&linktext=Neuro-linguistic%20programming

to simplify my notes,

motivation camp is not MLM camp.

lilian got her point :)

cos this post might indicate that NLP is evil.

And this, might offend some people from AsiaWorks, where it is a pure motivation training course.

oh btw, i'm only 23 years old...
hahaha sorry if i sound too uncle for that 'teenager in this society' statement. :P

9:10 AM  
Anonymous a friend said...

to quote "It isn't the company but the people that creates the problems"

well,, i believe it is the company's problem if its people were the one that creates the problems.

9:12 AM  
Blogger TreVesco said...

Steven,

oh yah, you may summarise my post, and post it, if you think my post make sense.

I know it's tooooooooo long.

9:12 AM  
Anonymous Calvin said...

Somehow I do agree that Steven you have overdone a bit, but the facts are there. A company operates in MLM structure needs Motivational stuff to maintain their market (For E.g. In many seminars of Amway they told Distributor to use replace almost everything can be found in Amway’s catalogue). Without altering people’s purchasing habits they just don’t stand a chance when people start to look into Price-Vs-Value ratio. MLM stuff is totally inflated, as for LBs the profit for Arch Duke is 42% of the product sold (if there were any), so how much does the product really cost? Ordinary people that didn’t exposed to motivational (brain wash) activities most properly won’t buy such poor Price vs Value ratio.

Don’t you find it why they always need to start thing with such hype? Don’t you ever curious about how they talk? Why always there is a need showing off their properties? I guess somehow they decided to use conveniently constructed inaccurate fact to silence the audience. But hey! I’m not dumb enough to be dupe into the whole Motivational thingy. Putting a price tag on a priceless life is just ridiculous. Best of all, you just put a price tag on your “integrity”. Gosh! I “guess” in this materialistic world you can indeed buy “everything”!

In my point of view, losing RM30k is just a small case if you just compare with losing your soul. My friend once told me: “A man is not a man, when there isn’t any trace of soul in his heart.”

One Man’s Perceptions
Calvin

10:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its brain washing 110%! I could not believe my brother CHANGED to the opposite. He start to answer back to my parents advise or anyone else, basically, he just shutdown, or let say, SELECTIVE LISTENING. And his upline, well, gave a we-did-not-force-him reply.

Two of my bro went in, and only one comes out.. the other one? Still waiting for his Mercedes la! Its a sad thing that my parents spend so much money on his overseas study, and he comes back and tell us this CRAP abt how bad working for ppl is...JOB = Job Over Broke..

Get REAL man!

10:26 AM  
Anonymous b3rnard7 said...

YEs Steven,NLP is part of their weapon.

Do u all know how those LB ppl use the NLP to brainwash,recruit new members and mind control them as well?

1st,they will ask u wat ru working as? how's ur job? what's ur pay? is ur salary enough for u? and etc.

Then later they will add more water by saying doing a JOB like working like slave for ppl.Why u 1 2 work for ppl instead u can do something for ur own.

After that,they will say some discouraging words of ur working life,and say do u 1 2 be like ur dad working for ppl for years but still can't be rich and here in LB u can change ur lifestyle and be better than him?

These are the steps they use when I was 1st time attending their LB talk in HLA building.

To avoid it,ur mind must be strong enough and just keep ur mind saying "NO"!!!

11:06 AM  
Anonymous lillian beh said...

b3rnard7, did u just described NLP? What do you understand by NLP? Is is so simple?

6:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I went to a similiar product also aroma theraphy called Bel Air.The president CEO looked like William Hung. A FACE of a conman i would say. The marketing plans is exactly like lampe berger.
Yesterday i heard from my friend that it has closed down already.

I also attending the preview and everyone was wearing black suites and they show you a slide on how your job sucks, and working for ppl is unsafe.

I think only 5% of the entire preview is on the benefits of the product. Comparing why cant we sell clean air, when we are selling bottled water.

Also my friend who has invested 40k ask me a question which really got me annoyed. He said "Dont you want to earn money?"

And i was thinking, plenty of ways to earn money. Why not you become loanshark? loanshark also earn money. Its wether we like it or not.

6:13 PM  
Blogger Steven Yip said...

hi anonymous above,

Is it in malaysia (referring to bel air)?

6:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

guys guys...u got it all wrong...its not NLP or anything like that...its the FORCE...the force is strong..

Sith LB: You don't know the POWER of wearing a RM50 bucks suit and the feeling of driving a rented BMW....JOIN ME..and together we will drive BMW..

Luke Anti-LB Skywater:..NEVERR..!!!

Sith LB: it is..your DESTINY!!

Sith LB: look inside you..you will see the truth..

Luke Anti-LB Skywater:..i have a strange feeling inside me..what are u doing to me??..!!

Sith LB: Your place is at my side.. you know it is true..

Luke Anti-LB: what do you mean ? what does it all mean?

Luke Anti-LB: you recruited my brother..!!

Sith LB: Noo...I..AM YOUR BROTHER!!

Luke Anti-LB: huh?
...
...
Luke Anti-LB: NOOOOO........


Cheers mate!

7:04 PM  
Blogger Lampe Berger Help said...

NLP nor Brainwashing, the whole Lampe Berger thingy relates back to the Distributors who will use any methods to bring people in to join under him/her.

It is the main thing to do is to bring a downline in. No matter what. Then only teach the downline to work on bringing in people, how to prospect, goal setting and so forth.

FORM H D is one of their method of identifying their prospect.

Financial
Occupation
Recreational
Money
Health
Desire

I think it is like that, come on, after so long, sure forget ma.. :P

It tackles into all the 6 points and start make you think, that all the current 6 u have now is not enough.
Targeting the weakess of all the 6 points and make ur heart crumble on what you are doing..

7:17 PM  
Blogger One Man's Perception said...

Since I can't join everyone at the Meeting. I guess i should start a blog. I'm a newbie! yeah!

anyway here's the blog's address
http://lampeblogger.blogspot.com/

One Man's Perception
Calvin

7:28 PM  
Blogger Steven Yip said...

congrats on your blog calvin.

You want me to link to you?

7:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

FORMHD

actually, F is for Family

8:11 PM  
Blogger Steven Yip said...

FORMHD,

So using this values that are so dear to us, it seems like they want you to believe it's not enough.

And after that they replace it with this business, which will bring more of those FORMHD.

This is dangerous. Playing with other people's mind.

Btw, where's the L for lamp?

8:15 PM  
Blogger Alvin Boo said...

Personally as a victim of the LB talk, I kind of quite agree with all your thoughts.

These LB members try to fill up your weaknesses by telling that you don't have to suffer that if you join LB.

This is totally unethical!!!

Steven, will try to mail you with a true story of my friend who joined LB, just need sometime to sit down and write this long long story.

Cheers!

9:21 PM  
Blogger Lampe Berger Help said...

Hie Alvin,

Do you mind to CC a copy to LB Help as well?

http://lampebergerhelp.blogspot.com

Thanks anonymous..
Yeah true
How could Financial and Money clash together.. :P bah.. Terima Kasih

Oh no, Calvin is joining the rat-race of Lampe Berger blogs.. :) hehe

Will link ya

9:26 PM  
Anonymous Jerry said...

The one i was refering to is called Bel Air. And the one that closed down is in Kuching, Sarawak.
The uplines are from Singapore.

They also go through the same marketing plan. Telling you to invest about 37k and the ranks are also similiar, right down to the percentage you make.

Maybe they copied this formula from Lampe Berger and deceived us saying products are from France, thats why they cost a bomb. I would say the goods come from Taiwan or China. But i still say the CEO of this company doesnt look very convincing. Would you trust someone who looked like William Hung, only older?

The Singaporeans upline's technique is telling the audience they resigned from thier sing dollar s$5,000 job a month to concentrate full time on this MLM thing. Theyre not only targeting college students. They target young working adults too.

3:12 AM  
Anonymous jerry said...

Why dont we have a FORUM ?????

Anybody know how to make one?

3:14 AM  
Blogger Steven Yip said...

Possible, but you will need to host somewhere.

Anyway, lowyat forum is quite active so far on LB issues.

Just goto kopitiam section

6:48 AM  
Anonymous Clement said...

Personally i think this post is too biased. You can't attack the entire MLM bcoz of one rotten apple. I am very anti lampe berger as many of my frens hv fallen victims to it. However, I'm not anti MLM. Some MLMs are good. Their products are really good. For example prepaid cards MLM, I joined them but I didn't find any downlines. I mainly profited from the discount i get frm buying prepaid cards. The membership fee is only RM38 for lifetime which is very reasonable. And i get cards at a cheaper price than normal shops. I also can buy for my family and frens conveniently anywhere i want. My frens liked it, and me too.

So, MLM is actually a business model. Many MLM companies also has buy back policy. LB however, is clearly a pyramid bcoz u can buy positions and the buy back policy is very vague(Most stuff are not refundable).

There are many other points to consider, so please read up as i can't write it all here.

So please, I liked your blog, pls don't spoil it with a post like this.

7:04 AM  
Blogger One Man's Perception said...

Clement,
Indeed there are a lot MLM that doesn't break the rules, but there is a big loop hole existing in it. It depends on who the leader is and how ethical he operates the MLM.
Most of the time, the reason that people exploiting these flaws, is when they consider it as "FULL-TIME" yet found themselves couldn't cope with the expenses. After being so used to all the Fames and the Glories, in most cases they will indeed start looking into ways to generate dependency and product flow, for e.g. Motivational Activities.

So, I just hope people will somehow observe their "Business" and their leader.

There is not definite right and wrong. Most of the time things are exist between this two extremes.

One Man’s Perceptions
Calvin

7:32 AM  
Blogger One Man's Perception said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

7:32 AM  
Blogger Steven Yip said...

Hi clement,

If the mlm is not using some mind bending techniques, slick talk, then it's fine.

The likes of it, what I meant was other MLMs that uses this activities to support the business.

But there's still the possibility that this might happen. So beware of such ways, if they might ever happen.

9:28 AM  
Blogger Cho said...

Hi Calvin, well done on your blog. I had make both Cal&Steve's blog as my fav in my own.

I was thinking about forum too, but not sure whether we can post as freely? Calvin & Steven can founded one. Forum is much more organized & suitable. You guys can catergorize btw facts, case study, approach suggestion etc... & when time comes, you can easily access the facts you work hard on.

Regarding the brain washing, I heard about it a lot. It's similar & identical to what you folks said in previos posts. Anothe psychological side I notice is the recuiter will keep pushing the tarket until the very end of their nerves.

My friend's brother had been involve in LB too. At first he said his friend took him to a seminar without telling him what it is (do that he doesn't have a chance to reject). He was then amused by all the BMW spells that we no-longer unfamilliar with... What the family did was told him all the facts about pyramid scheme (almost as good as steven's fact). But soon we discover that this friend of his kept on calling him to push him to join. 2345 to start with. The unethical side of them is when you don't have money, they will suggest ways to "help" you to get the money. In my friend's brother's case, his PTPTN. (which is not too bad, heard about worse). Then he ask him to get 30K from the father. Same approch, keep calling him & rushing him like the sky will fall down. If the father say no money? ask him to sale the house, car, get loan... anything... & they keep pushing.

At the end, due to his persistence & god knows what strategy he use (on his own creativity or other genious' suggestion), he get the money. It's heart breaking on how he behave now. Proud, shallow, attend LB meeting until 2AM in the morning, more materialistic than ever... etc.

I know I'm probably repeating what ppl had said 1000 times. My point is, please don't tell ppl like Steven Yip here "go get a wife & you will know", "Think yourself why they didn't listen to u." I know ppl like him must have try so hard.

Therefore finding out what brainwashing tactic they use is could be useful, we need to know more.

My 2 cents,
Cho

11:19 PM  
Anonymous Clement said...

There's a thread about LB awareness at a forum for MMU students. As far as i know, there are 4 major groups of LB operating here in MMU.

Please keep the thread there running. I'm very sad coz my fren won't hear my advice and enter rm30K. His parents also very sad. This is damaging the society and the relationship between him and his family and frens.

http://www.mymmu.net/v2/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=505

11:45 PM  
Anonymous Clement said...

Sorry i can't post the full links, i dunno how.

go to : www.mymmu.net and go to the forums section under "open discussion". You'll find it there.

11:47 PM  
Blogger Steven Yip said...

hi clement,

Thank you for your effort.

More forums needs to be posted on their respective universities, colleges.

We don't want more students to get involved.

Enough is enough.

DCHL has no other way to find adults, so they target students.

12:16 AM  
Blogger Cho said...

MMU too? So so far we have TAR & MMU on list, any others? If they intrude into one of the local Us, perhaps the authority might finally get concern. I'll contact my previous Thesis supervisor to check on MU & others. If they do, it won't be too far from getting the cancellor's attention which could really mean something.

12:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

HELP, Informatics, UTAR, UPM...

6:08 AM  
Anonymous senior lecturer said...

you guys are doing a very good job!

7:33 AM  
Anonymous b3rnard7 said...

1 more to add!

University Malaya! I thought those UM students are brilliant! But sadly,a group of ppl from there are "serving" their duty as part of SYN (Steven Yeam Network).

The person who invited me to LB talk in HLA building is from UM and her UM gang try to brainwash me there but failed! :P

10:08 AM  
Blogger Steven Yip said...

Hi Bernard,

Being smart in studies doesn't mean they are smart in business sense.

When you swallow everything they said, then you are doomed.

5:23 PM  
Blogger One Man's Perception said...

Smart is not same as Wise.
One Man's Perceptions

6:36 AM  
Blogger Cho said...

I'll try to get the authoritie's attention.

It will only able to capture them if LBlers are recruiting students that are studying in MU right now, works better if it's in large scale or have RM 30k issue. Say they use their PTPTN $ to cut count or something. (for UM grads who got con & vise versa, authority can't do anything & can't be bother.)

I wish I know more ppl form other Ed. Unit.

Bernard, MU students are not necessary smart/wise. No, you can't look at them as a whole, they're individual.

I got a few call myself from ppl that I don't even remember, talking as if they're my best buddy... why? Trying to recruit me for direct sales/ insurance. Apparently they're too desperate & call everyone on the hostel list. Good luck to them. Anyway, I told them I'm currently working TATAU (rural area in Sarawak that I myself need a map to locate it) or else they won't give up.

I'm only annoyed by the fact that they're aiming the innocent students & might as well ruin their future. & of coz my friend's bro will wake up from the scam. God bless.

4:13 AM  
Anonymous Sheby said...

Ones in a weekend i went to Sunway Pyramid's convention centre, accompany a friend there. is all about SYN thingy. i was about to tell that they are smart, work hard, really hard, sweet talking Chinese (99.9% were them), they couldn't stop talking, explaining, persuading n keep telling how's the plan working and what will you get when you are someone soooon. Quitting a current professional career to join them; one of their best speaker, was a successful interior designer for almost 25 years, quitting his job to concentrate on this lamp n aromatherapy industries. he took about 3 years to get a Duke title and maybe he had a Spa franchise. there are more like a brainwashed session, too general too simple information seminars.

As they introduce to other upper-line and yes, their group; one of conversation is going like this. this is XXX he's in a perfect case, got 5 Counts under him only in 1 day. wtf. he's only 22 and ride an AUDITT and his friend just bought a SLK. I'm not myself for a night long, confusing to decide want to involve or not. until this morning, i read a lot of forum, articles pros n contras. n met friends for their opinion.

What is keep my mind asking is, WTH the lamp refill is expensive n can i clear up my 30k stocks of lamps n other stuffs in short period) if i join them? who's gonna buy? use it till when? give relatives n families as a gift, until they asked 4 a free refill? people not buy a lamp everyday. even you're in a big/small town to build your own business network. business network?? it's a MLM lah.

and when they opened a plan, they just explaining what's the product use for, the benefits n advantages, just a 2 sided piece of laminated catalog with full of lamp images inside and a bit instruction n information. the sample is not there n keep me wondering how big is the lamp? haha wut the smell? conscious, conscious. its killing me. without any product/evidences they still want me to join them. poor me. Smart but not stupid.

persuade people? cheat people for covered others ass. this is so not me. Save your ass people. save our family. think and decide.

11:32 AM  
Blogger Steven Yip said...

hi sheby,

Depending on design, the lamp could be 3 inches tall.

Just a reminder, if they have done this business without the 30k hype, probably we won't be so anti them.

But brainwashing others so they could easily profit from downlines investment of 30k really sucks.

4:17 PM  
Anonymous b3rnard7 said...

There is a aromatherapy product is almost similiar with these "Lamp",price is much damn cheaper,refill also damn cheaper and got many types too.

We also can see the advertisement in our TV channel also.

U wanna know the name? ok,...I tell now.

is called "AMBI PURR" !

U also can put in ur car and home also.But u can't put a "LAMP" in ur car.Is too big and unconvinient.

about the price for AMBI PURR is RM10,refill is less than RM10.

SO,which 1 u 1 2 use? AMBI PURR or the LAMP? Choose it WISELY

8:27 PM  
Anonymous b3rnard7 said...

not to forget that AMBI PURR is available in all supermarket, hypermarket (Jusco,Carrefour,Giant,Tesco,Makro,Cold Storage and etc) and even u can find it in grocery,sundary shops and "kedai ubat" also!

U no need to pay membership fee to buy AMBI PURR in those places tat I mention and u also no need to buy it from any "middle man" or "con man"

8:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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good job!
keep the site updated!

3:15 AM  
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7:17 PM  

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